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Post by WhalersGM_Dan on Aug 3, 2015 16:19:58 GMT
I was just thinking about our farms. With a 10 million $ cap, people who build through their farm will not be able to carry very many prospects. We're talking 11-12 good prospects.
The problem I see with this is that if you have a decent farm, it makes it almost impossible to find room for guys you draft later. I don't love the 10 million dollar cap and I would rather we established a contract limit instead. For a team with 25 guys in a league with 24 teams, I think something in the 20 range would be great.
Or perhaps we could have an organizational limit. For example, 40 contracts, with no farm cap. That way rebuilding teams can spend a couple extra contracts on farm guys and run a slightly smaller roster.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Canes GM (Devin) on Aug 3, 2015 16:55:31 GMT
Dan, this is something we can talk about.
Most prospects drafted are at a cap hit of nothing more than $925,000 so that gives you a lot of flexibility.
Also, the $10M minor cap limit makes it so someone can't just offer a minor league player some ridiculous contract and stash them in the minors and never have to pay that contract. The $10M cap will limit GM's who want to do that to only people to have a couple of minors players in their farm.
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Post by MinnesotaGM on Aug 3, 2015 17:16:11 GMT
I would tend to agree. An organizational cap as opposed to a salaried for the farm teams would allow us to find and keep potential prospects that would be under the radar otherwise, thus demonstrating more savvy from GMs who are doing their homework! I understand why the salary cap is in use, but I would certainly prefer something more along the lines as Whalers put forth, in the organizational limit. This will keep from running into trouble with each year's prospect drafts. An excellent point to raise!
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Post by Canes GM (Devin) on Aug 3, 2015 17:37:13 GMT
Out of experience we need to have some kind of farm cap.
Maybe we create something that is a hybrid of the two options because I can understand where you guys are coming from.
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Post by Canes GM (Devin) on Aug 3, 2015 17:39:00 GMT
Remember that if you are finding a prospect before others are aware who they are you are most likely going to be able to sign that player at $525K which will have very little impact on your farm salary cap.
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Post by WhalersGM_Dan on Aug 3, 2015 17:41:46 GMT
Can you explain the need for the cap? I don't like punishing teams for having strong farms. I do t like the idea of placing a lot of constraints on building through prospects.
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Post by Canes GM (Devin) on Aug 3, 2015 17:48:27 GMT
The cap doesn't have any effect on prospects drafted but it will have an effect once we reach free agency.
With out a cap a team could just sit there and drive up the price on any prospect without any reprocussions.
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Post by WhalersGM_Dan on Aug 3, 2015 17:58:00 GMT
So ELCs don't count towards the minors cap?
The way I see it, if I make some deals and end up with 5 high end prospects, that's about half my minors cap. Someone with lower end prospects might be able to fit 8 or so guys in for 5 million.
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Post by Canes GM (Devin) on Aug 3, 2015 18:01:53 GMT
Yes, ELC's count against minors cap but take McDavid for example his cap hit is only $925,000. ELC's drop slightly as you move down the draft. Also high end prospects probably aren't going to sit on your minors team for more than a year or two.
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Post by Canes GM (Devin) on Aug 3, 2015 18:02:58 GMT
Maybe we revisit the minors cap and raise it some but I still think it needs to be in place.
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Post by WhalersGM_Dan on Aug 3, 2015 18:04:12 GMT
Still, in our current system you are penalized for having higher picks because you will have a smaller farm.
I think changing to just contracts with a farm GP/age limit makes more sense.
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Post by Canes GM (Devin) on Aug 3, 2015 18:16:35 GMT
Like I said we can try to change the amount of the minors salary cap but I highly recommend keeping some kind of cap in place.
You are only looking at it from the draft side but a lot of prospects come through free agency as well. At that point is where it could get crazy if we don't put a cap limit. Like I said I am speaking from experience where I saw it happen.
Again, your "high end prospects" that you draft most of them won't be minors eligible after 2 years anyways because we have an 82 NHL game limit.
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Post by Canes GM (Devin) on Aug 3, 2015 18:25:12 GMT
I would say to create a Suggested Rule change thread and proposed your rule change to go to league vote.
That is the best thing to do.
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Post by Sabres GM (Andrew) on Aug 3, 2015 20:39:50 GMT
The minor cap is generally there for a situation like this;
Let's say over the summer a RFA/Minor player like Kuznetsov or Panarin come over from the KHL unexpectedly. This guy has high potential, is going to play on a great team, it just seems like a great situation for all things regarding that player and fantasy hockey. He flew completely under the radar until news broke that he's coming over to play in the NHL. Now everyone wants him and is going to bid on him in free agency. The salary cap for a minor team comes in handy so a team can't just do a bid of $12,000,000 for one or more seasons to assure they get the rights to the player. The cap is designed to give every team a fair opportunity at all players.
That being said, you guys are making a few good points and I personally think there is reason to revisit this aspect of the league. Perhaps there doesn't need to be a 'salary cap' for an overall minor team, but just a salary limit for a player in the minors. A simplex example being a team can't have a player in the minors if that said player has a cap hit of anything over $2,500,000...etc.
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Post by Red Wings GM on Aug 3, 2015 21:56:42 GMT
I like the idea of having a limit on the salary of the players in the minors better than having a salary cap for your minor team.
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Post by Penguins GM (Pat) on Aug 3, 2015 22:57:57 GMT
I like the idea of having a limit on the salary of the players in the minors better than having a salary cap for your minor team. I think you would have to have a contract limit for your minor team. Also what would happen if multiple GM's just throw a maximum salary contract at a prospect?
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Post by Sabres GM (Andrew) on Aug 3, 2015 23:08:35 GMT
First come first served I suppose. But that was the purpose of the cap hit on the minors, it would limit people just doing the max bid,
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Post by WhalersGM_Dan on Aug 3, 2015 23:13:37 GMT
I like the idea of having a limit on the salary of the players in the minors better than having a salary cap for your minor team. I think you would have to have a contract limit for your minor team. Also what would happen if multiple GM's just throw a maximum salary contract at a prospect? I see it as an auction. So the first person to place that bid, gets the player unless someone bids higher. Imagine we had a salary maximum of 1.5 per farm player. Let's say I bid 1.5 million on Marner, the maximum I can bid and still put him on the farm afterwards. Well, you come in and say "I want him more". You will have to decide to either bid over 1.5 and play him on your regular roster, or you will have to let me have him. I see it like this: Max per player: 1.5 million Max number of players on farm: 20 Players cannot sit on active rosters if they are in any league which is not the NHL This way no one can snatch up prospects and let them sit on their main roster, tanking.
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Post by Penguins GM (Pat) on Aug 3, 2015 23:19:22 GMT
So are we just throwing ELC eligibility out of the window here? Mike Reilly had to sign an ELC deal because he wasn't eligible for anything else. Just to be clear that's what you're advocating for. That could bring up other problems like what's the max term on one of these deals? Not saying the idea is bad, but it will require more thought. I think the current system does as well.
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Post by Oilers GM (Julian) on Aug 3, 2015 23:50:54 GMT
I like what whalers is proposing. The way we work the farm system definitely needs to be improved over upcoming years.
Any rule change wont come into effect until next season. We can put it to an official vote when the logistics get worked out.
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Post by Canes GM (Devin) on Aug 4, 2015 0:04:05 GMT
I'm open to anything that makes the league more enjoyable for all. I just saw some pain points in another league and I'm just trying to point them out here.
I do think 20 minors players is a bit much with 24 teams.
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Post by WhalersGM_Dan on Aug 4, 2015 2:35:24 GMT
I'm in another league with 20 teams and each farm is 25. It's really competitive to snag guys offer waivers tho, not sure if we want that atmosphere here. It can get fiesty.
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